PIER-14 Possible suggestion

Hi Steve,

A really good time to mention this now that we've seen what it can do. An additional frame needed here and there for some mosaics would be a small price to pay for the increased usage during what now are slack times. We've probably already captured or almost finished capturing a couple of the best mosaics already.

You may recall I put this forward as a suggestion possibly at the end of last year, so I'd be acceptable to the suggestion. I will also happily agree to the status quo if anyone wants it to stay the same.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Cheers,

Ray

Ok, I will await hearing from everybody else also

Its a job we need to do ourselves on the next visit to be fair as we would need to swap the rear end over to non reducer connection.

If in the end this is a thumbs up decision then I will push to get all current jobs out the way before we go ?

On similar vein:

Would one of you mind checking your Rho coordinates for me please as I am surprised this data set has not been started yet so I want to remove the obvious before delving deeper as to the reasons ?

Steve

Hi Steve,

The coordinates from the submissions are shown below:-

18 NoMoreCloudyNights 14 2021-02-08 22:03:41 16h 20m 03s -24d 53m 57s
17 NoMoreCloudyNights 14 2021-02-08 21:59:15 16h 31m 56s -24d 53m 57s

I used Telescopius and a target at RA 16h 25m 24s and DEC -24d 28m 00s, which is fairly close. Today that target IC4603, rises to 25 degrees elevation at 12:39 am, setting at the same elevation by 03:06 am. Even allowing for a slightly lower DEC compared to those above, there ought to be enough time to satisfy the algorithm. Unless of course, those objects we've been putting in recently are overriding them? OOPs.

Unfortunately in response to keeping the pier busy I submitted 2 more jobs yesterday. These are located a bit higher than the 2 in question, just by using a slightly higher DEC value. It's possible that those have not yet been put into the job queue, but if they have then I've no problem in having those 2 removed.

I hope you can come up with a solution Steve, it's not easy trying to handle a multitude of little problems at the same time, so I hope there is a simple remedy.

Cheers,

Ray

Thanks Ray

It’s no big issue and I am on it, I was just after a background thumbs up from you is all so I can now resolve from my end

Re new jobs just put in, we have a major clear patch due this week so all is well and I believe the data will get finished before the trip to Spain

Steve

Removing the reducer and going back to 530mm FL would probably help with field flatness and aberrations. The outer 256 pixels compared to the centre currently look like this:


Even if we zoom out to the outer 1024 pixels the aberrations can be seen to extend well into the frame:


A longer focal length makes some targets more difficult. The Heart Nebula and the Veil complex become 2-pane mosaics, but we get a tighter view of M42, Flaming Star, California etc, and as you said galaxies.

I am happy to make the change and see how it works out.

I will check whether anything really needs to finish (new job 1014 being my top priority), but I think we are OK to resubmit most of the waiting jobs.

Good morning,

Just playing devil's advocate.

I'd say that I'm 70:30 in favour of the change after taking into consideration what Steve listed as the pros and cons. My only slight concern relates to mosaics and what the current setup gives us.

Notwithstanding the star shapes around the edges, I wonder if these would be acceptable in order to relatively quickly capture several one-off mega-mosaics. We are entering the season I believe that affords us the best examples. I'd be 60:40 in favour of keeping it the same until the next visit after the one being planned now, preferably October to November. After that it makes sense to make it more adaptive to smaller targets, opening up many more choices and having taken more of the advantage the current setup gives us.

To recap, I'm okay with making the change at any time, but delaying it will allow the next visit to go ahead without consideration given to completing some of the ongoing jobs.

I agree with Richard that the righthand panel for the North American nebula must be completed, plus the two I've submitted to replace a few subs for the other 2 panels. I'm happy that the lefthand panel will make a nice image on its own, but we should make sure we get the other 2 completed. It would be nice to get the Veil in one shot, if that's still possible given the camera angle. There are a few more examples we could try after that. I will have to work out new coordinates for the Rho Ophiuchus mosaic and resubmit it. Given the very short window of opportunity this really ought to be completed as well.

Hope no one minds this suggestion.

Cheers,

Ray

No worries for me, I am easy either way on reduced or native to be fair

As for job changes and new coordinates, I have not changed a thing yet

I was going to ask you for a concise list of exactly what you want removing once you have decided on exactly what etc and I will do it the same day

Steve

Good morning,

I will have to work out new coordinates for the Rho Ophiuchus mosaic and resubmit it. Given the very short window of opportunity this really ought to be completed as well.

Hope no one minds this suggestion.

Cheers,

Ray

Go for it!

Thanks Richard I will do it tomorrow.

Now should we all agree to postpone the removal of the reducer and therefore not be rushed for time, how about completing the mosaic and resubmitting the left panel with the revised coordinates. It would be a shame to miss out as once the scope has the reducer removed that opportunity will pretty much be gone. Hopefully the Heart and Soul nebula will also soon become available before any changes are made to the setup.

I'd fully understand if you would prefer to have those star shapes sorted out and get the scope changed during their imminent visit as was recently agreed.

You did a great job with those images showing those star distortions across the frame. A picture certainly is worth a thousand words in this case.

Cheers,

Ray

Steve,

I've now submitted replacements for the Rho Ophiuchus mosaic, so jobs 17 and 18 can be removed. Coincidentally their replacements are 1017 and 1018. Cannot believe we've now submitted a thousand jobs!

Cheers,

Ray

No worries

I had already paused them anyway so they did not ware anyone’s time during the clear skies last night


Please let me know ASAP with the complete list of what needs turning off rather than me having to spot in the messages lol

Less likely of me to make a mistake that way

Cheers

Steve

I am just checking as threads with you lot are like Pans labarynth to navigate so I miss things

If we have time and can do you want when we are in Spain, do you go native or stay reduced as you are now ?

It may be worth opening new topics in future so they don't get as long and meandering as this one, although to be fair I am just as guilty as going off topic LOL

Steve

Hi Steve,
Just like keeping you on your toes now and again.

My vote is to stay reduced for the time being. There are already several projects for which data has not been fully or even started to be collected and given the erratic skies and the moon waxing, it's very unlikely that they will all be done in time. In addition we are now fully entering the season where the wider fov will be a real asset. The Sadr region being one example. Once we go native then it will need to remain that way, at least until this time next year or permanently. So I reckon it makes sense to leave well alone for this visit and more importantly give you a bit less to do while there and return home sooner.

Cheers,

Ray

Hi Steve,
Just like keeping you on your toes now and again.

My vote is to stay reduced for the time being. There are already several projects for which data has not been fully or even started to be collected and given the erratic skies and the moon waxing, it's very unlikely that they will all be done in time. In addition we are now fully entering the season where the wider fov will be a real asset. The Sadr region being one example. Once we go native then it will need to remain that way, at least until this time next year or permanently. So I reckon it makes sense to leave well alone for this visit and more importantly give you a bit less to do while there and return home sooner.

Cheers,

Ray

I agree.

Richard

Ok, it is decided then:)

I could take some adapters to improve star shapes on the existing rig if you want but only fit them if the jobs are completed beforehand

Unfortunately we have had a family bereavement so the trip may yet go back to mid June

Steve

Steve,

Sorry to hear about your bad news. All this can wait for now obviously. Hope all the family can get together at this sad time and be there for one another.

Best regards,

Ray

Sorry to hear your news. Family is more important than all this stuff.

Best wishes

Richard

Thank you both, that was very kind

Back kind of now, just a funeral to go.....

If Boris does not move the goal posts, we have now booked the ferry to Spain for the 16th. So myself and Pete are getting everything ready and packed

I would really like to try and get all started jobs finished before we leave as I really want to fit the new adapter if you are staying with the extra FOV as it will improve the corners a huge amount

lets see how it goes over the next couple of weeks

Steve

Hi Steve,

Do hope things go okay and appreciate you bringing us up to date, subject to the whims of Doris of course. Now, just my half a cents worth.

I agree that fitting a new adaptor is really important, most particularly for the 4 panel Sadr region. It would be a nightmare with the current setup and stars.
Having looked at the submissions and job queue this is what I've found for the 16 jobs in this morning's joblist.

Some of the the following is just what I think should be done, and needs to take into account what Richard decides.

1)
Submissions in the job queue that are not current targets. Some have data collected from earlier in the year. These may need to be re-submitted later to take into account what the camera angle finishes up at, but very little data has been gathered, so no problem.

Coor 00991,00992,00993,00994,00995,00999 and 01000, plus coor 128 and coor 830 (Total of 9 non current items in the joblist.)


2)
Submissions in the job queue for current objects. Ideally these require completion but some of these already have quite a lot of data already collected.

Coor 024 (Flying Bat) 57.9% completed out of 9 hours.

Coor 025 Veil complex 20.0% completed out of 6 hours.

Coor 026 Elephant Trunk 73.3% completed out of 6 hours.

001007 Replacement subs for middle panel of ngc7000 mosaic, 25.0% completed out of 1.33 hours.

001008 Replacement subs for original left panel of ngc7000 mosaic (sh 2-119), 0.00% completed out of 1.47 hours. See 001016 below.

001009 Additional subs for LDN1739, 90.9% completed out of 4.67 hours.

001010 ngc7822 (this is listed as submission 1012 in the submissions list. Somehow its number got changed here in the joblist to 1010.
An earlier completed submission was to assess the likely ratio of filter subs. This job is to collect the remainder. Ideally needs completion, but not vital.
0.00% completed out of 8.42 hours.

(That's a total of 7 current items in the joblist out of the 16 currently being shown.)

3)
Submissions that are current targets but do not yet appear in the joblist.

001016 New submission for the right panel of the ngc7000 mosasic, sh 2-119. This will need completing, and as I mentioned is not yet in the joblist queue.

Note, the original right panel submission was before we realised the camera angle was not vertical and was causing a misalignment problem. This original submission has been processed as a stand-alone image by Richard. The submission 001008 above that I submitted recently, but before being aware of the misalignment issue, is to collect some replacement subs for that image only, which are not vital. Only about 90 minutes of data though.

001017 and 001018 Replacements for the Rho Ophiuchus mosaic due to the camera angle. This target is at a low altitude and ideally needs gathering before the visit.

001019 plus 001022 thru 001024 The 4 panel Sadr region ambitious mosaic. Definitely to be left until after the visit, so should not go into then joblist.

001025 Just submitted by moi. This is to collect replacement subs for the recently completed right panel of the ngc7000 mosaic, basically the Pelican nebula. This needs to be put into the joblist and the data collected before visit.

Summary:

Submissions requiring inserting into the joblist. 1016,1017,1018,1025.
Submissions in the joblist ideally requiring completion in addition to the 4 above. Coor - 024, 025 and 026. Coor - 001007,001008,001009 and 001010.
Submissions NOT to be put into the joblist for now. 001019,001022,001023 and 001024.

Hope I got all the numbers right.

I reckon given a reasonable number of clear nights, these should be possible. If necessary my submission 1012, (shown as 01010 in joblist???) can be deferred until after the visit.

Remember this is all subject to amendment subject to Richard's choices.