PIER-14 Concerns

Hi Ray,

I am sure there will be another reply here but let me just touch base on the total time.

If it says 24hour, dont forget thats broken down into the 7 filters, not the total per filter. So actually its not that insane of a time.

regards

Ray

They are mathematical algorythems by a quality sequencing software and its not inclined to be micromanaged if I am honest. its not human and somethimes I wonder myself why it does things as it does but in fairness it always seems to be more efficient than a human over a period of time. Also as we have not the time to micromanage as a team of humans until the wee small hours, so it seems the logical thing to do as it allows the biologicals to get some sleep

It also uses moon avoidence as per our specs on the forum so the moon as a whole is taken into account, the sequencing software also allows us to automate the roof for weather events which means it will re open after a weather event and resume gathering data without human input. A non automated approach can never do this I am afarid.

M82 is a Widefild M81 M2 which has been put in for when the moon is down, the reason it is so long is for the IFN background. No you did not choose but we had to put some objects in for memebers until they got on there feet. At present it has 2 jobs from members and this is not enough for the software I mention above to chew on and work with. I note you do not have the same concerns for the Sime147 that you asked me to put in yourself, the job above because of the IFN needs a lot of good moonless data. If I am honest I thought you may enjoy doing a a job like that with so much rich details as well as the hard to reach and process fluff.

If you want specific jobs then please send them over, and we will input, we have simply put some jobs in to get it started. we have been mentioning on the forum for a week now for jobs t be inputed so please get jobs rolling and then watch how the algorythm works over a month rather than just a few evenings Ray


"Twenty hours imaging time, 636 times 61 megapixel light frames. I don't think the word insane goes far enough."  would you like me to cancel the job ?

[color=#000000][color=#ffffff]Most piers we run have a mix of short and long jobs in and that is the best way, we also spread them over the whole evening, including the upcoming galaxy season which is jobs after 3am as well as jobs that rise early etc


Steve[/color][/color]

It appears that the very favourable recent spell of excellent weather may be coming to an end. Hopefully it will return soon. 

I have a series of concerns which I will address in short posts fitted in with my spare time today, and hopefully will make it easier to reply to. 

Concern 1

The algorithm being used to determine what is going to be imaged during each period of clear skies, needs to allow to be overrided. For convenience I am attaching 2 screenshots of the imaging queue, there are several things in the queue that I will address in subsequent posts. For now a major concern is that the M31 which is shown in the queue for the 15th January and only required one more hour to complete, has not been allocated any more time. This could have at least been done on the 17th even after waiting for the crescent moon to set at 21:42 with M31 still at 36°.
Weather delays mean that the moon will start to impact on broadband targets like M31. 

I hope that this is not the case. 

Apart from Richard I am not aware of where the other targets are coming from. It does not bother me, however, some of the target integration times are insane! 

One of these in particular has been taking up a large proportion of the imaging time, there are others. I draw your attention for now to the galaxy M82. Not something either Richard or I asked for, but while we have no more right to time than anyone else, I believe we have a right to question. 

Twenty hours imaging time, 636 times 61 megapixel light frames. I don't think the word insane goes far enough. 

So much else in the queue could have been completed and started. 

End of concern 1.

Hello Ray,

There is more to M82 that meets the eye. The idea behind this particular subject was mine....Its very early in the season for this object so allowing it the time to image made sense to me knowing this area very well and imaged it many times in the past.

You are correct to assume that M82 itself is a very bright object and doesn't warrant 20hrs, however given the FOV of P14 M82 would seem very lost in such a big field.
The skies in Spain are exceptional and I thought we should take advantage of the dark skies as this region is very well known for its integrated flux nebula. IFN is a very cold and dark part of our Milky Way, to image it takes many hours of integration time. 

Here is a shot taken with my own scope showing M81 and M82 surrounded by IFN, this was image had an integration time of over 40hours. The FOV of P14 is much wider and will not only show M81 and M82 but some of the other smaller galaxies surrounded by the IFN, it should extend out of the edges of the frame and would make a stunning subject and nice to offer a world class data set.

I hope this helps explain my object and integration choice

Cheers
Peter

Peter, 

Thanks for that explanation. Great idea to do that for the IFN and if necessary there could be a follow up to collect more time. It's likely that given the small aperture that time will not be enough. Certainly a good target though for the Planewave. 

Another great image you attached by the way, and after seeing that I'm really looking forward to receiving the data and hopefully your processed image of it. 

Thanks, 

Ray 

No problem Ray.... 
The Planewave would give quite a narrow field, perfect for high detail in the galaxies themselves. IFN  gives much more of a dramatic effect on wider a field rig. The fast optics and wide field of the106 is better suited for IFN and Molecular Cloud regions as they expand across wider areas of the sky.
I have a real soft spot for these types of areas as they require exceptional skies and are notoriously difficult, this will push your processing skill to the limit Ray ....I hope you'll enjoy this data set as much as me.
cheers
Peter

Hi Steve, 

All has been explained to me now most satisfactorily. There was never any question of me wanting that job cancelled, just querying its affect on the other targets. I'll explain that. 

First though with regards to M31, if it turns out that no more time can be be allocated by the time the moon starts to affect things, then perhaps it would be a good idea to cancel that job. This target was set up to test out Brian's app and it's beginning to look like it might not be completed very soon. 

Regarding my original post, it appears to have had the desired effect. The problem has been lack of communication between us, not down to my lack of trying I might add. 

It is not the case that we only submitted 2 targets and therefore became necessary to submit more to make up a shortfall. You were probably not aware of that however Steve. I can  if you like share with you an email from Peter at the end of November where he provided me with a list of more than 10 targets in the queue to be done, of which more than 2 were mine. Due to that I have not submitted any more and left it Richard to put forward his choices next which I'm glad to see are there. Continuing on. That target M82 did not appear in the original list I was given, so my reaction to seeing it  there I think justified my reaction, particularly given it is taking precedence over many of the items on the list that I was made aware of. 

Quite simply, this has arisen due to bad communication. I hope therefore that now we have access to a form for our submissions,  thank you Phil, plus that awesome queue list you've made available, we can move on and create some fantastic images to draw in more and more subscribers. 

There will be no more concerns for me to post as it has all, I hope, been sorted out to everyone's satisfaction. I am. 

Best wishes, 

Ray 

Just realised what I said in relation to M31 and cancelling it if necessary. What I meant to say was, remove the job from the queue but send us what has already been captured. 

moon phase is still quite small at present so as long as its low on the horizon before M31 gets to low then I would hope the software will pick M31 to do, How ever I have put the priority setting up a few notches to try and nudge the computer into the human perspective of things

This thread makes things a lot clearer. I was rather confused about what was going on.

I need to submit more jobs to give the management software more to choose from Ray and my list of targets. I was waiting for my first couple of jobs to run to check I was doing everything right. Probably a mistake.

old_eyes