Morning all,
There may, might, hopefully will be a small break in the cloud cover above the obs around Friday, according to the 'Clear Outside' forecast. If it doesn't then I may be about to waste your time. The forecast after that is not promising.
If that one short opportunity did arise, then I wonder if others might agree to using as much of that time concentrating on getting some data back. Given the absence of the moon one priority could be purely broadband target(s), the other to be the total /outstanding imaging time. Do we concentrate on just one or perhaps try for two or more. Your choice. I did resubmit M31 but that can wait for the next time.
Selecting targets from the pier queue is difficult right now as there are so many that cannot be viewed using Phil's new wonderful submissions list. What is needed is more information on some of the targets. If everyone is happy to go along with the criteria of only selecting short imaging runs then from the present queue I see the following -
M42 OAG test
P14 coor 128 what is this?
P14 m66
M82 - 5hours to complete
(most of the data will have the shadow obstruction, but I would probably do a large crop to remove it and leave it to Peter to produce a masterpiece in its entirety)
There could be time to complete one of the others instead if the positioning of any of the above is not favourable, maybe anything that is about 6 hours and remains imageable for the whole of that time.
EDIT :
Peter has since made me aware that when doing a manual override only one target can be captured. So we ideally need a target that is circumpolar-ish, "up" all night. I believe the imaging hours, using Telescopius are between 19:15 and 05:15, please correct me if I'm wrong. That's a maximum of 10 hours if the target is effectively circumpolar, but allowing for positioning, downloads, dithering, filter changes, meridian flip, say a max of just over 9 hours. Ideally entered as 2 sets of exposures, each set comprising half of the number of exposures for each filter. That way, if clouds interrupt then at least we should have "half of a full set" to work on.
END OF EDIT.
What I haven't looked into and will need consideration are the times each chosen target can be imaged. We need a spread of times. Most importantly and goodness knows why I put it last, is, is it even possible to manually control the pier queue to override the algorithm.
Any other suggestions to do something else with the time, that would be far simpler and easier to do. We could just leave things the way they are of course.
Screenshot of queue below.
Further information.
M42 imageable from about 19:15 to 23:30 approx, so may be a bit tight on time?
M66 imageable 21:30 to 05:45 approx
M82 imageable all night long
Don't know what other target is.
There may, might, hopefully will be a small break in the cloud cover above the obs around Friday, according to the 'Clear Outside' forecast. If it doesn't then I may be about to waste your time. The forecast after that is not promising.
If that one short opportunity did arise, then I wonder if others might agree to using as much of that time concentrating on getting some data back. Given the absence of the moon one priority could be purely broadband target(s), the other to be the total /outstanding imaging time. Do we concentrate on just one or perhaps try for two or more. Your choice. I did resubmit M31 but that can wait for the next time.
Selecting targets from the pier queue is difficult right now as there are so many that cannot be viewed using Phil's new wonderful submissions list. What is needed is more information on some of the targets. If everyone is happy to go along with the criteria of only selecting short imaging runs then from the present queue I see the following -
M42 OAG test
P14 coor 128 what is this?
P14 m66
M82 - 5hours to complete
(most of the data will have the shadow obstruction, but I would probably do a large crop to remove it and leave it to Peter to produce a masterpiece in its entirety)
There could be time to complete one of the others instead if the positioning of any of the above is not favourable, maybe anything that is about 6 hours and remains imageable for the whole of that time.
EDIT :
Peter has since made me aware that when doing a manual override only one target can be captured. So we ideally need a target that is circumpolar-ish, "up" all night. I believe the imaging hours, using Telescopius are between 19:15 and 05:15, please correct me if I'm wrong. That's a maximum of 10 hours if the target is effectively circumpolar, but allowing for positioning, downloads, dithering, filter changes, meridian flip, say a max of just over 9 hours. Ideally entered as 2 sets of exposures, each set comprising half of the number of exposures for each filter. That way, if clouds interrupt then at least we should have "half of a full set" to work on.
END OF EDIT.
What I haven't looked into and will need consideration are the times each chosen target can be imaged. We need a spread of times. Most importantly and goodness knows why I put it last, is, is it even possible to manually control the pier queue to override the algorithm.
Any other suggestions to do something else with the time, that would be far simpler and easier to do. We could just leave things the way they are of course.
Screenshot of queue below.
Further information.
M42 imageable from about 19:15 to 23:30 approx, so may be a bit tight on time?
M66 imageable 21:30 to 05:45 approx
M82 imageable all night long
Don't know what other target is.
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
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I recall that Richard recently suggested ngc1909 the Witch Head and also seeing recently this taken on pier 6 posted a couple of weeks ago. This used 12 x 300s exposures in RGB and might just squeeze in. Would need to do a proper check using Telescopius for Friday to check. Any thoughts on this one?
EDIT:
Unfortunately no longer a great choice since I found out we can only image once.
EDIT:
Unfortunately no longer a great choice since I found out we can only image once.
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Good morning Ray,
It does indeed look like we have some clear skies forecast this week so fingers crossed Mr Fish is correct. It will be interesting to see what the data acquisition software chooses to image to be honest
Ps I got your email yesterday while driving to Cornwall and back so I will deal with that today
Steve
It does indeed look like we have some clear skies forecast this week so fingers crossed Mr Fish is correct. It will be interesting to see what the data acquisition software chooses to image to be honest
Ps I got your email yesterday while driving to Cornwall and back so I will deal with that today
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
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Good morning to you too Steve,
This tablet's keyboard and my stubby fingers don't go well together. Managed to lose this post part way through, so starting again.
My only concern Steve is that though it might be interesting to see what the algorithm has in mind, I'd rather take full advantage of the one clear night being forecast, to actually receive one or more completed data sets. That awkwardly positioned jet stream might deny us any further opportunities for weeks, adopting my usual pessimistic pov.
So, would a kind of full manual intervention be possible, or, would it require a desperate and illegal flight to Spain by someone to do that. BTW, my passport is out of date.
Cheers,
Ray
This tablet's keyboard and my stubby fingers don't go well together. Managed to lose this post part way through, so starting again.
My only concern Steve is that though it might be interesting to see what the algorithm has in mind, I'd rather take full advantage of the one clear night being forecast, to actually receive one or more completed data sets. That awkwardly positioned jet stream might deny us any further opportunities for weeks, adopting my usual pessimistic pov.
So, would a kind of full manual intervention be possible, or, would it require a desperate and illegal flight to Spain by someone to do that. BTW, my passport is out of date.
Cheers,
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Hi Ray,
We can do a manual override target, when needs must. However you must understand that when the object reaches its horizon limit, no matter what time that may be, it will park and be non productive for the rest of the night, where as the acquisition algorithm would ordinarily move on to the next best placed object.
I perfectly understand that with the recent weather you want to be able to get a complete one night data set, I just felt you needed to know all of the facts when taking over and doing a manual session.
Have a think about what you want it to do and let me know tomorrow which target and I will deal with it.
Kind regards
Peter
We can do a manual override target, when needs must. However you must understand that when the object reaches its horizon limit, no matter what time that may be, it will park and be non productive for the rest of the night, where as the acquisition algorithm would ordinarily move on to the next best placed object.
I perfectly understand that with the recent weather you want to be able to get a complete one night data set, I just felt you needed to know all of the facts when taking over and doing a manual session.
Have a think about what you want it to do and let me know tomorrow which target and I will deal with it.
Kind regards
Peter
Peter Shah - Collimation & Telescope servicing.
Visit my personal imaging website at astropix.co.uk
For Image Processing Tutorials
Contact: pete@ccdimaging.co.uk
We can supply your new high quality Newtonian or Dall Kirkham Astrograph
Visit my personal imaging website at astropix.co.uk
For Image Processing Tutorials
Contact: pete@ccdimaging.co.uk
We can supply your new high quality Newtonian or Dall Kirkham Astrograph
Peter Shah
Roboscopes Observatory Controller
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Hi Peter,
Thank you for that explanation, I understand your point. I'll wait until tomorrow morning for Richard to reply and hopefully we'll agree on something. In the absence of hearing from him, and given what I know now, a good option might be to use all the time to complete M82. If that were the case, I'm hoping you know what has been captured so far? The first 5 hours could then be used to capture the remaining frames, and the rest put to gathering more of each filter as you see fit.
I'll try and let you know as early as possible tomorrow. I'd certainly welcome any suggestions you may have for an all night alternative, broadband or narrowband makes no odds. I and I'm sure everyone else would like to be able to post something on the forum and maybe persuade one or two other people to join.
I'll amend my earlier suggestions in light of what you've told me for when Richard gets to see this post.
Best wishes,
Ray
Thank you for that explanation, I understand your point. I'll wait until tomorrow morning for Richard to reply and hopefully we'll agree on something. In the absence of hearing from him, and given what I know now, a good option might be to use all the time to complete M82. If that were the case, I'm hoping you know what has been captured so far? The first 5 hours could then be used to capture the remaining frames, and the rest put to gathering more of each filter as you see fit.
I'll try and let you know as early as possible tomorrow. I'd certainly welcome any suggestions you may have for an all night alternative, broadband or narrowband makes no odds. I and I'm sure everyone else would like to be able to post something on the forum and maybe persuade one or two other people to join.
I'll amend my earlier suggestions in light of what you've told me for when Richard gets to see this post.
Best wishes,
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
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Clear Outside is as reliable as the met office.
Well according to that site as of now, that particular window has pretty well shut! Possible, possibility that there might be if the wind is in the right direction, a short opportunity on Sunday. I wish I never looked this morning, sorry guys.
Well according to that site as of now, that particular window has pretty well shut! Possible, possibility that there might be if the wind is in the right direction, a short opportunity on Sunday. I wish I never looked this morning, sorry guys.
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Morning Ray
we use Meteoblue for forecasting as we have found it the most reliable for Spain as a whole.
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/current/fregenal-de-la-sierra_spain_2517643
it does look like the clear spell has pushed back a day or so, we will see
steve
we use Meteoblue for forecasting as we have found it the most reliable for Spain as a whole.
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/current/fregenal-de-la-sierra_spain_2517643
it does look like the clear spell has pushed back a day or so, we will see
steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the link but I have become rather disillusioned with all of them. I'll control my impatience from now on and let things take their normal course of action.
When next booking any lengthy run I may however consider entering it as 2 half bookings. At least we get something to evaluate a bit sooner. Any reason you can think of why not to try that occasionally.
Cheers
Ray
Thanks for the link but I have become rather disillusioned with all of them. I'll control my impatience from now on and let things take their normal course of action.
When next booking any lengthy run I may however consider entering it as 2 half bookings. At least we get something to evaluate a bit sooner. Any reason you can think of why not to try that occasionally.
Cheers
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Following Peter's point about manual intervention - once you override the software you can only image that one target - I would be inclined to let the software do its thing.
The M42 OAG test was completed and reported. It was just a few subs to check that the OAG problem was resolved. Results here https://www.roboscopes.com/index.php/forum/pier-14-objects-to-image-2/467-prism-done-new-flats-done-existing-jobs-what-to-do-restart-or-new-or-leave-etc?start=15#1940
I think we decided against the Witch Head as we have other jobs in the queue that rise higher. It is a difficult target, and it seemed better to get on with the other targets.
The M42 OAG test was completed and reported. It was just a few subs to check that the OAG problem was resolved. Results here https://www.roboscopes.com/index.php/forum/pier-14-objects-to-image-2/467-prism-done-new-flats-done-existing-jobs-what-to-do-restart-or-new-or-leave-etc?start=15#1940
I think we decided against the Witch Head as we have other jobs in the queue that rise higher. It is a difficult target, and it seemed better to get on with the other targets.
Good news re prism
If I am honest I have a very strong preference towards the software control as its far more effecient but I did not want to be a firm hand and just say NO despite manual intervention being massive amounts of night time workload for myself and Pete to make sure a manual run in fact runs smooth. I asked pete if he would be kind enough to explain the pros and cons of both methods as he is far more delicate than me and my size 12's LOL
Fingers crossed the forecast stays true and its clear
Steve
If I am honest I have a very strong preference towards the software control as its far more effecient but I did not want to be a firm hand and just say NO despite manual intervention being massive amounts of night time workload for myself and Pete to make sure a manual run in fact runs smooth. I asked pete if he would be kind enough to explain the pros and cons of both methods as he is far more delicate than me and my size 12's LOL
Fingers crossed the forecast stays true and its clear
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
If the software is doing a reasonable job it will be optimising use of clear skies based on jobs in the queue. I doubt that we can do better manually, and trying to force the system will probably produce a worse result. The ability to play with partial data sets (see my other post) might help the frustration. It is only the fact that imaging conditions have been so poor that raises all these bright ideas for getting 'something' done. We must abide in patience. No clear skies - no data of any sort!
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Thanks Steve,
I don't need any further explanation. My suggestion at the time was a one-off and I'm unlikely to suggest it again. That's not to say that it should not be suggested under the right circumstances by anyone else.
My main reason for posting however is to do with what is currently in the queue. Screenshot of this appears as an attachment to my opening post.
There are a number of bookings preceded by P14 and coordinates. I assume these were entered to ensure that the scope wasn't idle due to an initial lack of bookings. What would be helpful is their coordinates since this would prevent us from inadvertent duplication. These were entered prior to the Submission List becoming available so will not show up there. A post with the approximate coordinates or name of a close by target would be great. No big deal though.
Any information gratefully received.
Clear skies...
Ray
I don't need any further explanation. My suggestion at the time was a one-off and I'm unlikely to suggest it again. That's not to say that it should not be suggested under the right circumstances by anyone else.
My main reason for posting however is to do with what is currently in the queue. Screenshot of this appears as an attachment to my opening post.
There are a number of bookings preceded by P14 and coordinates. I assume these were entered to ensure that the scope wasn't idle due to an initial lack of bookings.
What would be helpful is their coordinates since this would prevent us from inadvertent duplication. These were entered prior to the Submission List becoming available so will not show up there. A post with the approximate coordinates or name of a close by target would be great. No big deal though. Any information gratefully received.
Clear skies...
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Ray
There will always be times like with the M31 that needed finishing as well as the Prism test, where there is a need for us to intervene to be fair, we just on the whole need to be judicous about it and where possible leave the software to just do its thing is all I meant. Knowing me I was most likely not 100% clear and no size 12 was intended
"There are a number of bookings preceded by P14 and coordinates. I assume these were entered to ensure that the scope wasn't idle due to an
initial lack of bookings. What would be helpful is their coordinates"
yes you are correct, we did not use coordinates as the algorithm has a common object database so we simply used that for ease of input.
Cheers
Steve
There will always be times like with the M31 that needed finishing as well as the Prism test, where there is a need for us to intervene to be fair, we just on the whole need to be judicous about it and where possible leave the software to just do its thing is all I meant. Knowing me I was most likely not 100% clear and no size 12 was intended
"There are a number of bookings preceded by P14 and coordinates. I assume these were entered to ensure that the scope wasn't idle due to an
initial lack of bookings.
What would be helpful is their coordinates" yes you are correct, we did not use coordinates as the algorithm has a common object database so we simply used that for ease of input.
Cheers
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
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Steve,
Any clues as to where we can find this common object database?
I have noticed we have bookings for The Tadpoles, my one I believe, and a separate one for its neighbour Ic405. Although the possibility of a mosaic exists, they have different declination coordinates and probably differing integration times and maybe filters used. A tidy up now may save imaging time. I know The Tadpoles has started, but I'd be happy to have that replaced by a mosaic of the two targets.
We can also just leave it as it is.
Ray
Any clues as to where we can find this common object database?
I have noticed we have bookings for The Tadpoles, my one I believe, and a separate one for its neighbour Ic405. Although the possibility of a mosaic exists, they have different declination coordinates and probably differing integration times and maybe filters used. A tidy up now may save imaging time. I know The Tadpoles has started, but I'd be happy to have that replaced by a mosaic of the two targets.
We can also just leave it as it is.
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Its built into our software to be fair, I will try and fing who's database they actualy use
To be far Ray, any that we put in previously that you want removed so you can replace with new ones that suit what you all want to acheive just let me know and I will remove them today ?
Cheers
Steve
To be far Ray, any that we put in previously that you want removed so you can replace with new ones that suit what you all want to acheive just let me know and I will remove them today ?
Cheers
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
I understand don't worry, we are also somewhat frustrated with current weather to be fair! It was the same last winter then all of a sudden it just cleared and no clouds for months
I look forward to the yearly patch of 6-8months clear skies with much glee to be honest as we can get back to chewing through tons of subs each night again
Steve
I look forward to the yearly patch of 6-8months clear skies with much glee to be honest as we can get back to chewing through tons of subs each night again
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
Last night was promising but then a large band of cloud gate crashed the party so it ended up being more of an observatory shakedown
sky safety temps for the roof were set at -25 and you can see from the attached pictures it worked perfectly. Opening and closing on clear spells which on a better night would have meant data collection while we are all asleep
sky safety temps for the roof were set at -25 and you can see from the attached pictures it worked perfectly. Opening and closing on clear spells which on a better night would have meant data collection while we are all asleep
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Interesting Steve.
Basically an example of a typical UK observing night! I would have stuck it out until about 2:20 am before giving up and missing that final short clear spell of clear weather. But then again like most people I have a manual roof and need to be up to do the opening and closing.
Thanks for sharing.
Ray
Edit
Just looked at the queue and some data was captured for LBN878 and M82, yay!
Basically an example of a typical UK observing night! I would have stuck it out until about 2:20 am before giving up and missing that final short clear spell of clear weather.
But then again like most people I have a manual roof and need to be up to do the opening and closing. Thanks for sharing.
Ray
Edit
Just looked at the queue and some data was captured for LBN878 and M82, yay!
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
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