Warning, this may be considered controversial, read at your discretion.
Having read both sides of the argument: to bin or not to bin, I fall on the side that favours oversampling. Risky perhaps when seeing conditions are not very good, however, I believe there are many situations where it would be extremely beneficial.
There are too many interesting objects (galaxies) which are just not large enough to resolve details unless you go sub one arc pixel. Often they may be bright enough to require shorter exposure times so that enough acceptable frames can be used from a large number of captures taken. Choosing to do so puts the onus of responsibility entirely on us, and we need to accept there may be no decent images.
Thinking of something like the enormous Planewave instrument as the one to have this option. Agreed there would need to be a second set of calibration frames, so it's important to only allow this option on one of the scopes where binning 2x2 is the norm. To avoid any need to alter the current booking form, allocate a new pier number to it, where what you enter will be the same as before, but the Roboscopes techies will magically switch the 2x2 binning off for the duration.
I checked and Software tools actually recommends 0.33" to 1.00" / pixel scale under good 1-2" FWHM conditions for such a scope and sensor pixel size combination and warns of under sampling above 1.00" / pixel scale.
Something for future consideration maybe and also something I'd really look forward to using.
Postscript.
Took so long to type in I forgot to include a relevant point. I'd only use the unbinned option when capturing luminance, be that the L or Ha filters. I'd setup a second capture sequence with the default binned option when using the other filters to shorten the total exposure times needed.
Having read both sides of the argument: to bin or not to bin, I fall on the side that favours oversampling. Risky perhaps when seeing conditions are not very good, however, I believe there are many situations where it would be extremely beneficial.
There are too many interesting objects (galaxies) which are just not large enough to resolve details unless you go sub one arc pixel. Often they may be bright enough to require shorter exposure times so that enough acceptable frames can be used from a large number of captures taken. Choosing to do so puts the onus of responsibility entirely on us, and we need to accept there may be no decent images.
Thinking of something like the enormous Planewave instrument as the one to have this option. Agreed there would need to be a second set of calibration frames, so it's important to only allow this option on one of the scopes where binning 2x2 is the norm. To avoid any need to alter the current booking form, allocate a new pier number to it, where what you enter will be the same as before, but the Roboscopes techies will magically switch the 2x2 binning off for the duration.
I checked and Software tools actually recommends 0.33" to 1.00" / pixel scale under good 1-2" FWHM conditions for such a scope and sensor pixel size combination and warns of under sampling above 1.00" / pixel scale.
Something for future consideration maybe and also something I'd really look forward to using.
Postscript.
Took so long to type in I forgot to include a relevant point. I'd only use the unbinned option when capturing luminance, be that the L or Ha filters. I'd setup a second capture sequence with the default binned option when using the other filters to shorten the total exposure times needed.
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
As you know Ray I have a simple take on binning, I let my sky conditions decide for me 
If I am lucky enough to be in one of the few locations with .5"/px seeing then thats what I image at but if my location has seeing that's 1-2"/px then likewise thats what I will image at. The difference between our way of thinking I believe is us being a "business" This means we have a duty to deliver a certain standard of quality now whilst delivering the correct amount of Data ordered.
If customer XXXX requests for example Pier-12 at 1x1 (0.65"/px) for 5 hours Luminance, the customer has also agreed that they are happy to take the risk at 1x1 etc etc
* Customer pays £xxx to us
* We deliver 5 hours of data
* Out of 5 hours only 1 hour is of a good enough standard to use because it was 1x1
In my experience of customers over the years, is that in a lot of cases even if you explain, warn and even get them to agree that its at there own risk! When push comes to shove in the end you still end up with an unhappy customer who purchased £xxx in data and only received £xx I would rather not have that situation present itself to be fair.
I understand that I am using broad strokes for every customer in my reasoning and not everybody is the same but it is our job as the "supplier" to deliver a certain standard so we don’t get hassle for not delivering good data.
Also from my point of view, people will see the data we supply across the world and if customer XXXX posts an oversampled horrid image people will automatically say......
"have you seen how bad the data is that Roboscopes supply" It will never get mentionedon forums that the customer was informed it would not work well etc etc
However, whilst I would prefer to stay as we are if we got to know a customer well enough and we understood that there would be no comeback if the data supplied was not brilliant. I could be persuaded to bend the rules from time to time
I really hope that helps explain binning LOL
If I am lucky enough to be in one of the few locations with .5"/px seeing then thats what I image at but if my location has seeing that's 1-2"/px then likewise thats what I will image at. The difference between our way of thinking I believe is us being a "business" This means we have a duty to deliver a certain standard of quality now whilst delivering the correct amount of Data ordered.
If customer XXXX requests for example Pier-12 at 1x1 (0.65"/px) for 5 hours Luminance, the customer has also agreed that they are happy to take the risk at 1x1 etc etc
* Customer pays £xxx to us
* We deliver 5 hours of data
* Out of 5 hours only 1 hour is of a good enough standard to use because it was 1x1
In my experience of customers over the years, is that in a lot of cases even if you explain, warn and even get them to agree that its at there own risk! When push comes to shove in the end you still end up with an unhappy customer who purchased £xxx in data and only received £xx I would rather not have that situation present itself to be fair.
I understand that I am using broad strokes for every customer in my reasoning and not everybody is the same but it is our job as the "supplier" to deliver a certain standard so we don’t get hassle for not delivering good data.
Also from my point of view, people will see the data we supply across the world and if customer XXXX posts an oversampled horrid image people will automatically say......
"have you seen how bad the data is that Roboscopes supply" It will never get mentionedon forums that the customer was informed it would not work well etc etc
However, whilst I would prefer to stay as we are if we got to know a customer well enough and we understood that there would be no comeback if the data supplied was not brilliant. I could be persuaded to bend the rules from time to time
I really hope that helps explain binning LOL
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
0
Undo
Votes
Steve,
Thanks for the explanation, I fully understand that you have to protect your business and reputation and respect that. I'm probably in a minority of one who would want that option anyway.
Hope you all have a safe, uneventful and successful trip next week.
Cheers,
Ray
Thanks for the explanation, I fully understand that you have to protect your business and reputation and respect that. I'm probably in a minority of one who would want that option anyway.
Hope you all have a safe, uneventful and successful trip next week.
Cheers,
Ray
Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig
Steve,
Thanks for the explanation, I fully understand that you have to protect your business and reputation and respect that. I'm probably in a minority of one who would want that option anyway.
Hope you all have a safe, uneventful and successful trip next week.
Cheers,
Ray
As I said Ray, not 100% one rule to rule them all sort of thing but it's not open to everyone all the time on every pier for the previous reasons stated
Thank you, we are quite excited about the trip to be fair
Steve
Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)
Things to do, so little time!
Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy
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