PIER-14 Am I alone?

Hi Richard, 

You've done a neat job there setting that up, so thanks for doing that. Really looking forward to getting the data back now the weather there has changed.

Hope you're well, and even though locked in like the rest of us, at least you've got fantastic mountain scenery to look at. 

Cheers, 

Ray 

I have looked again at the Heart and Soul Nebula. With the portrait arrangement, it is a two-pane mosaic. I suggest something like this:


The neat thing is that the Heart Nebula is a good fit on its own to a single pane. So I will submit both panes with the centres as defined. 

Lets start with 2hours each Ha, SII, OIII 30 x 240 sec subs

That should give us enough for a good mosaic and hopefully a very nice Heart Nebula on its own.

old_eyes

Hi Ray,

I have looked at the Veil complex with the vertical orientation. It fits fine. However, it is now too low down in the sky. We will have to wait until later in the year.

It would look like this:

Hi Ray,

I have looked at the Veil complex with the vertical orientation. It fits fine. However, it is now too low down in the sky. We will have to wait until later in the year.

It would look like this:

On behalf of pier 14 users. 

Further to the post a couple of weeks ago, the requested calibration frames are still not available for us to download. It would make sense to do so since during this slack time there will be less downloading of data from the site. This would save us all  time ahead of receiving some data, which we're looking forward to now after some reasonable hours of clear skies very recently and due over the coming week. 

Thanks 

Thank you Richard if you wouldn't mind doing that. I think the Veil ought to be okay but might not be frame quite so pleasingly. Looking forward to getting some data back as soon as the weather there improves. Been quite good here in the east of England up until a few days ago, well for narrowband anyway as it coincided with a fullish moon. 

Hope all is well, 

Ray 

OK Ray. When I get a chance I will look again at the coordinates. Might not change for Veil. California I need to check. I will also review our mosaic suggestions.

old_eyes

Hope you got the email okay Richard. 

I've now heard back from Steve about the sensor orientation and it very much appears to be vertical. This will require adjustment to mosaic coordinates when they are submitted. 

Attached is a screenshot of the scope and camera Steve sent to me for you to see. 

Ray 

Morning guys. Just wondering if you could at least make available to us the flat and dark files for pier 14. From experience on pier 6 these can be very large downloads and it would assist us by getting that part out of the way while the weather continues to be uncooperative. Would also appreciate confirmation of the sensor orientation to assist us with planning optimum coordinates. 

Cheers, 

On behalf of Syndicate 14.  

Ah! OK, I did not spot that!

So 300 sec it is then.

Good plan to find out the sensor orientation. We need to know that anyway.

Still a bit unclear how we know what is in the queue. Nothing in the data folder yet (including calibration files). In an earlier post you said there were three targets that you had already chosen, and that everything was done by email. Perhaps we should share emails so that we can both see all this stuff. Probably less clunky than a forum. If you want to go that route, I can be reached at richard@miller-klein.com

I was thinking about looking at the Pier 6 flat files to see how much vignetting there is. I guess they must be the right files for the current ZWO 6200 so a bit of checking could be useful. How much would we have to crop to get rid of the vignetting?

Thanks for the reply. Will use the coordinates you've provided. 

The recommended exposure times in the place you are referring to relate to when pier 6, the Takahashi FSQ106-ED, had a camera with a KAF8300 fitted. During a visit to Spain prior to the most recent, a new ZWO 6200 camera replaced it. From then the maximum exposure time has been restricted to 300 seconds. You can see that near the top of the page where it is mentioned in red type. If you also look towards the bottom of the page the dark frames only extend to 300 seconds. This was never altered for pier 6 so consequently got copied to this one. 

I've just sent in a ticket to establish what orientation the sensor is in. The field of view examples indicate portrait (vertical), while I was assuming landscape (horizontal). Will need to wait on that for the mosaic.

Cheers, 

Ray 

Hi, 

I'll now do this in a couple of chunks. One explanation for earlier is that I inadvertently touched cancel by mistake instead of submit! Alternatively often on this tablet touching the Submit button does not work and if you then back out of the post it gets lost. 

Part 1

As previously mentioned I will probably have to submit our list in an email so will need to know some details first. What is a bit problematic is that the list of targets I received of those currently queued up, doesn't mention the integration times. I really cannot estimate how many hours in total need to be captured before any of these, our bookings, can be started I'm afraid.

The Veil nebula and California nebula ought to be our first submissions due to their positions. Now with a lot of targets there will be choices with regards to narrowband and/or broadband imaging. Please indicate what your preferences are for each one we submit.

For any booking on a public pier the exposure length and numbers are required.  For any narrowband booking I'd probably stick with the maximum exposure length of 300 seconds. For broadband this would need a bit of investigation first. This leaves the number of exposures. I'd be happy to do what I do for my own bookings and base them on images others have done and have provided the capture data. This I adjust according to the optics used and image scale to give an approximation. 

A mosaic of the Cone and Rosette region would make a fantastic project and in the next post I'll suggest how we undertake it. 

These are all only my suggestions based on a little knowledge and experience, so please don't hesitate to make your own. 

As you say, Veil and California are a good starting place given the fact that they are progressively sinking lower in the West as time goes on.

I would go for narrowband as they are amazing in any variation on the Hubble palette.

The general opinion seems to be that when shooting NB you go for longer and fewer subs as NB images are read noise limited. The Pier 14 recommendation on the website is for 600-900 sec for bright objects. So perhaps 600 sec to start with on each of the three filters? Say 15 subs for each to see how it goes? I think we need some experiments to figure out what works for this rig.

Centering the veil complex in the frame I get current date coordinates of RA 20:38:41 DEC +34:37:07

The California Nebula will fit the frame using 'official' coordinates, but centres in the frame a bit better at RA 04:04 39 and Dec +36:28:40

Part 2

Mosaic of the 2 targets. 

To ensure that the mosaic is a full rectangle and not 3 slightly offset images the centre will be approximately half way between the two. So for both the Cone and Rosette defined coordinates will be provided. The RA value for all the 3 components of the mosaic will be 6hrs 36 minutes. The declination values will be :

Cone nebula - +10d 25 m
Filler frame - +7d 38m
Rosette - +5d 00

This will create a mosaic with a 6.25 x 8.75 degree fov and approximately 9300 x 13000 pixels. Hope your computer is up to it, but you can always downsample.   SEE BELOW. *


If we book the 2 main targets, wait for the first to be captured and ascertain whether or not more subs are needed. If this is okay then the middle (filler) frame can be booked. 

These are your suggestions so please let me know what filters you want to use. 
Any questions please let me know. 

In the meantime, 

Cheers, 

Ray 

Postscript :
*
Oops, a lot of finger trouble on my calculator. Originally posted a fov 6.25 x 8.75 degrees which should have been 5.25 x 8.75. This changes things to 9300 x 15500 pixels!!!! 

Lol. Wanted to make sure it got posted and pressed Submit a few times!!!! 

Hi, 

I'll now do this in a couple of chunks. One explanation for earlier is that I inadvertently touched cancel by mistake instead of submit! Alternatively often on this tablet touching the Submit button does not work and if you then back out of the post it gets lost. 

Part 1

As previously mentioned I will probably have to submit our list in an email so will need to know some details first. What is a bit problematic is that the list of targets I received of those currently queued up, doesn't mention the integration times. I really cannot estimate how many hours in total need to be captured before any of these, our bookings, can be started I'm afraid.

The Veil nebula and California nebula ought to be our first submissions due to their positions. Now with a lot of targets there will be choices with regards to narrowband and/or broadband imaging. Please indicate what your preferences are for each one we submit.

For any booking on a public pier the exposure length and numbers are required.  For any narrowband booking I'd probably stick with the maximum exposure length of 300 seconds. For broadband this would need a bit of investigation first. This leaves the number of exposures. I'd be happy to do what I do for my own bookings and base them on images others have done and have provided the capture data. This I adjust according to the optics used and image scale to give an approximation. 

A mosaic of the Cone and Rosette region would make a fantastic project and in the next post I'll suggest how we undertake it. 

These are all only my suggestions based on a little knowledge and experience, so please don't hesitate to make your own. 

Hi, 

I'll now do this in a couple of chunks. One explanation for earlier is that I inadvertently touched cancel by mistake instead of submit! Alternatively often on this tablet touching the Submit button does not work and if you then back out of the post it gets lost. 

Part 1

As previously mentioned I will probably have to submit our list in an email so will need to know some details first. What is a bit problematic is that the list of targets I received of those currently queued up, doesn't mention the integration times. I really cannot estimate how many hours in total need to be captured before any of these, our bookings, can be started I'm afraid.

The Veil nebula and California nebula ought to be our first submissions due to their positions. Now with a lot of targets there will be choices with regards to narrowband and/or broadband imaging. Please indicate what your preferences are for each one we submit.

For any booking on a public pier the exposure length and numbers are required.  For any narrowband booking I'd probably stick with the maximum exposure length of 300 seconds. For broadband this would need a bit of investigation first. This leaves the number of exposures. I'd be happy to do what I do for my own bookings and base them on images others have done and have provided the capture data. This I adjust according to the optics used and image scale to give an approximation. 

A mosaic of the Cone and Rosette region would make a fantastic project and in the next post I'll suggest how we undertake it. 

These are all only my suggestions based on a little knowledge and experience, so please don't hesitate to make your own. 

Hi, 

I'll now do this in a couple of chunks. One explanation for earlier is that I inadvertently touched cancel by mistake instead of submit! Alternatively often on this tablet touching the Submit button does not work and if you then back out of the post it gets lost. 

Part 1

As previously mentioned I will probably have to submit our list in an email so will need to know some details first. What is a bit problematic is that the list of targets I received of those currently queued up, doesn't mention the integration times. I really cannot estimate how many hours in total need to be captured before any of these, our bookings, can be started I'm afraid.

The Veil nebula and California nebula ought to be our first submissions due to their positions. Now with a lot of targets there will be choices with regards to narrowband and/or broadband imaging. Please indicate what your preferences are for each one we submit.

For any booking on a public pier the exposure length and numbers are required.  For any narrowband booking I'd probably stick with the maximum exposure length of 300 seconds. For broadband this would need a bit of investigation first. This leaves the number of exposures. I'd be happy to do what I do for my own bookings and base them on images others have done and have provided the capture data. This I adjust according to the optics used and image scale to give an approximation. 

A mosaic of the Cone and Rosette region would make a fantastic project and in the next post I'll suggest how we undertake it. 

These are all only my suggestions based on a little knowledge and experience, so please don't hesitate to make your own. 

Hi, 

Just replied but I don't know what happened as it hasn't shown up. I'll try again a bit later as there was quite a lot in there. It's all positive stuff. 

Ray 

Ray,

Yes, I understand. I was just having fun playing around with what would make amazing images. I guessed it would be at least three panels, but there is plenty to go at with an image centred on the Rosette and another on the Christmas Tree to NGC2477/IC2167/IC2169 area. They could be combined into a larger panorama by adding panel(s) later.

I need to have a look at all this stuff with a proper mosaic planner!

Not pushing for large mosaics early on. Just thinking about the possibilities of this pier.

I guess we will know a lot more when the first data sets become available. Steve said that with such a large chip there was some vignetting and curvature of the field at the edges. So we will probably lose data, but I don't know how much yet.

old_eyes

Hi there, 

Have looked at your suggestion and it would unfortunately require 3 images.

To reasonably accommodate both in the fov it requires 8 degrees, 480 arc mins, without any overlap. With each target placed on the top and bottom edges, again with no overlap, requires about 7 1/3 degrees.  The height of the sensor is probably around 3 1/2 degrees allowing for dithering, hence 3 sets of data.  Hope this helps. 

Cheers, 

Ray