Wednesday, 02 March 2022
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Hello all 

 

i propose to launch a 2 pane mosaic of the blue horsenebula

 

it is very low on the horizon , max at 32degre .  Steve , is ti possible ? 

i assume that orienation is still 90degre for the camera ? 

last year Ophiu nebula was done so i think it is ok 

 

i propose to first launch L data to test and then rgb 

 

florent

Pane, RA, DEC, Position Angle (East), Pane width (arcmins), Pane height (arcmins), Overlap, Row, Column
Pane 1, 16hr 18' 12", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 1, 1
Pane 2, 16hr 10' 48", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 2, 1

 

 

2 years ago
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#4741
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witj the attachement : 

Attachments (1)
2 years ago
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#4742
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I like it. Nice target

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Hello Florent, 

That is am intriguing image you attached. Just wonder how close I'll manage to get it to look like that. Submit it early and it should get more than enough time.

Thanks for the suggestion. 

Cheers, 

Ray 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


2 years ago
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#4744
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I like it too!


Manuel
Roboscopes General Technical


2 years ago
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#4745
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Hello all 

 

i propose to launch a 2 pane mosaic of the blue horsenebula

 

it is very low on the horizon , max at 32degre .  Steve , is ti possible ? 

i assume that orienation is still 90degre for the camera ? 

last year Ophiu nebula was done so i think it is ok 

 

i propose to first launch L data to test and then rgb 

 

florent

Pane, RA, DEC, Position Angle (East), Pane width (arcmins), Pane height (arcmins), Overlap, Row, Column
Pane 1, 16hr 18' 12", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 1, 1
Pane 2, 16hr 10' 48", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 2, 1

 

 

Hi everyone

Give or take a small amount the camera is the same, I rotate by eye so its never exact :) That job is possible no problem but don't put to many jobs in that low if you can, please state use 20º horizon limits for this one in the notes area :)

Did you all see my message about a trip with a new jig in a few weeks ?

Please just place as one job as its causing Pete way more work behind the scenes as you have started separating filters into individual jobs. This is OK with a quick "test" job but a logistical nightmare if you want to separate a full LRGBHOS job into individual submissions per filter on an ongoing basis.

Steve




Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


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Hi Florent and Steve, 

Just my 1 cents worth on your reply Steve.

I think we can agree that anything low in the sky will suffer from the relatively poorer atmospheric conditions, so as a consequence ideally ought to be taken at as high an elevation as possible. 

Would it be worth being a bit more specific Steve by taking into consideration a few more criteria, to avoid requests to lower the limit unnecessarily. 

As an extremely rough guide I would request for anything below a declination of -12° to have the horizon limits lowered. That is anything that doesn't rise above an elevation of approximately 40° at the site. Around the time of transit this could give upto an additional hour of imaging time.

That alone however is too simplistic as other things need to be factored in.

The total integration time, particularly a mosaic. A long time would favour a lowering of the horizon limits.

Is it a broadband target? With the number of days restricted by the moon, then again a request to lower the horizon limits would be a good idea.

 

Splitting a target into 2 jobs, broadband and narrowband, is something I'd do. The exception might be if only Ha was required. Jobs for individual filters definitely not recommended except for testing. 

Cheers, 

Ray 

 

 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


2 years ago
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#4747
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Hi Florent and Steve, 

Just my 1 cents worth on your reply Steve.

I think we can agree that anything low in the sky will suffer from the relatively poorer atmospheric conditions, so as a consequence ideally ought to be taken at as high an elevation as possible. 

Would it be worth being a bit more specific Steve by taking into consideration a few more criteria, to avoid requests to lower the limit unnecessarily. 

As an extremely rough guide I would request for anything below a declination of -12° to have the horizon limits lowered. That is anything that doesn't rise above an elevation of approximately 40° at the site. Around the time of transit this could give upto an additional hour of imaging time.

That alone however is too simplistic as other things need to be factored in.

The total integration time, particularly a mosaic. A long time would favour a lowering of the horizon limits.

Is it a broadband target? With the number of days restricted by the moon, then again a request to lower the horizon limits would be a good idea.

 

Splitting a target into 2 jobs, broadband and narrowband, is something I'd do. The exception might be if only Ha was required. Jobs for individual filters definitely not recommended except for testing. 

Cheers, 

Ray 

 

 

Afternoon Ray, to be specific we have horizon limits in place that the whole software along with moon avoidance is based upon and works with. Many months ago on Pier-1 we had the issue with a multitude of ultra low jobs being put in and when high up jobs were not getting done I bore the brunt of the grumblings so after much conversation between us as well as forum posts with the members we decided then to stick to the horizon limits in place (per pier) as our imaging software algorithms had set math in place to work with and we were not throwing ultra low curve balls at it all the time with different parameters.

In fact its at the top of every pier is  a sticky referring to this. To be fair the piers are now being very productive and working very well under the new system.

We of course understand specials and customers wanting to do almost unattainable objects LOL We obviously try to accommodate our members where we can and work together, however I don't fancy a repeat of last year which is why we put all the limits and how to use the pier crib sheet in place at the time.

So yes an occasional on the floor job is OK especially during the productive seasons but as the norm its a no from me I am afraid. I do hope you all take this as me looking out for your imaging interests with the pier rather than being a spoil sport  :)

 

HTH

Steve


Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


2 years ago
·
#4748
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Hello all 

 

i propose to launch a 2 pane mosaic of the blue horsenebula

 

it is very low on the horizon , max at 32degre .  Steve , is ti possible ? 

i assume that orienation is still 90degre for the camera ? 

last year Ophiu nebula was done so i think it is ok 

 

i propose to first launch L data to test and then rgb 

 

florent

Pane, RA, DEC, Position Angle (East), Pane width (arcmins), Pane height (arcmins), Overlap, Row, Column
Pane 1, 16hr 18' 12", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 1, 1
Pane 2, 16hr 10' 48", -19º 29' 36", 90.00, 211.20, 139.20, 25%, 2, 1

 

 

I will add however that I do think that the blue horse would be an epic worth while job to break the horizon limits for :)

Steve


Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


0
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Good grief Steve, 

 

Only a couple of minutes ago I had some kind of premonition about what you were about to post. :) 

Agreed that very low jobs, anything that requires a lowering of the horizon limit should most definitely be avoided. Exceptions being where it is deemed a worthwhile target and is discussed ahead of time amongst members. The Blue Horse as you mentioned being a good example. 

Cheers, 

Ray 

 

 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


2 years ago
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#4750
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that's why i post this target as suggestion , as i now it is low on the horizon , even in spain. 

 

 

i propose to schedule a simple job   of LRGB  40x180s L (2H) , 20x180sRGB (3h total) for each pane , so a job of 5h. 

 

As it is low on the horizon , i dont think that it is possible to shoot more than 1h , 1h30 /day . So lets do a small job 

 

 

2 years ago
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#4751
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that's why i post this target as suggestion , as i now it is low on the horizon , even in spain. 

 

 

i propose to schedule a simple job   of LRGB  40x180s L (2H) , 20x180sRGB (3h total) for each pane , so a job of 5h. 

 

As it is low on the horizon , i dont think that it is possible to shoot more than 1h , 1h30 /day . So lets do a small job 

 

 

I know, and thank you for asking me if it was possible :)

Ps its a bright object and you are seriously early submitting the object which is nice to see and will really help gather all the data. However, may I suggest a little more time than 3 hours as it will help a bucket load, 3hours per pane is a little thin

Like I said (your in nice and early, its only March) so you are 4/8 weeks ahead of schedule on this giving you plenty of time to get the required data I feel :)

 

Steve


Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


2 years ago
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#4752
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I propose    2h L   3h RGB , so 5H hours total .    We can combine L R G B to make a superLiminance file for details 

 

 

 

I see that you are creating a pier15 with the 6200MM and a Canon 200L, very large FOV !!

2 years ago
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#4753
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I propose    2h L   3h RGB , so 5H hours total .    We can combine L R G B to make a superLiminance file for details 

 

 

 

I see that you are creating a pier15 with the 6200MM and a Canon 200L, very large FOV !!

Not sure if its the new Askar 200mm or Canon 200mm yet. it all depends which one performs best. We will know next week and finalise the pier on the next trip at the end of the month.

Cool, 5hrs a panel will be epic

The new P15 should be an exciting system for ultra-widefield junkies once complete me thinks :)

For me personally the addition of narrowband filters is the important part as I like big narrowband widefields so I suspect it may get a few choice jobs added by me!

Steve


Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


2 years ago
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#4754
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you are right about widefield SHO ! 

i m currently imaging orion region at 50mm in RGB Ha !

 

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This has turned into a bit of a disappointment on two fronts. Something we all missed was the assumption made that the camera was vertical. It is not. Using a vertical/portrait orientation in Telescopius and then applying the coordinates it gives but with a horizontally oriented sensor, results in a 50 pcent overlap of the 2 panes and a skinny looking horse vertically. 


The other problem is that the blue subs for the first pane, for some reason do not align properly anyway. I've found 10 subs that do not appear to overlap with any of that pane at all, while the remaining 20 only align by around 25 percent of the pane. That is the westward 25 percent. That makes it impossible to create a blue stack right now. Many of the subs for the other filters are affected by the usual suspects. 


I was looking forward to this. That's a couple of hours scratching my head trying to fathom out what was going on I'll never get back. 

  • What to do next guys? 

 

 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


1 year ago
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#4921
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This has turned into a bit of a disappointment on two fronts. Something we all missed was the assumption made that the camera was vertical. It is not. Using a vertical/portrait orientation in Telescopius and then applying the coordinates it gives but with a horizontally oriented sensor, results in a 50 pcent overlap of the 2 panes and a skinny looking horse vertically. 


The other problem is that the blue subs for the first pane, for some reason do not align properly anyway. I've found 10 subs that do not appear to overlap with any of that pane at all, while the remaining 20 only align by around 25 percent of the pane. That is the westward 25 percent. That makes it impossible to create a blue stack right now. Many of the subs for the other filters are affected by the usual suspects. 


I was looking forward to this. That's a couple of hours scratching my head trying to fathom out what was going on I'll never get back. 

  • What to do next guys? 

 

 

Dear Ray and Florent,

I have thought about this for a while, hence the delay in responding. Regarding the what next question, I have a couple of comments and a suggestion, which I hope can meet with your approval.

a. There is still a window to image the Blue Horse in the coming month. Actually, starting May 22 (+/- one day), such a window would open given the Moon curve and the location of the site.

b. We can use 1x2 mosaic given the ~0°/180° angle of the camera. Using a 20% overlap will be fine.

c. In this configuration (0° angle), it will be a tight fit, hence I have modelled the FoV using a -2° and a +2° angle to optimize the centre of the image. As you can see in the attached Picture1 (the yellow frame is identical in all three versions), the fit is tight, but still achievable (crop is already accounted for). 

d. The coordinates of this model are (Pane, RA, DEC):

Pane 1  16 14 27  -18 33 10
Pane 2  16 14 27  -20 23 34

e. Maybe we could ask Steve to prioritize this for the dates mentioned above.

What do you think? Should we do this?

Best wishes

Manuel

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Manuel
Roboscopes General Technical


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Thanks Manuel for this suggestion. 

I hadn't appreciated that there was still one last opportunity to complete a mosaic so I'm grateful that you took the time to look into this. It will be a bit of a compromise due to the camera angle, not something we can do anything about though, and something is often better than nothing.

There is now a question of how many of the Syndicate members will read this and respond giving the go ahead. Without this I don't think Steve would be able to act on it. That is essential. 

The main objection will likely be the impact this would have on all the other jobs. My understanding is that when such a prioritisation is done, no other jobs will be undertaken for the night. I'm sure Steve will correct me if I have that wrong. With declining hours in which we will be able to capture data, already many jobs queued up already, we really need a response from everyone. 

I can offer a compromise if that might be more acceptable to everyone, just a single pane. This will therefore be captured in half of the time. Picture attached. 

Thanks again Manuel for taking the time to look further into this and offer us your better alternative, however, I'm not hopeful that we will receive feedback in time given the general lack of responses we've had in the past. I hope that I'm wrong. 

Best wishes, 

Ray 

 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


1 year ago
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#4923
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Hi everyone

Ray - if you could nudge Peter about the blue channel so he can see what's happened that would be awesome :)

As for me tweaking things behind the scenes, I have no issue with that, just give me some notice but I think we have more than enough to do get this one done

Steve


Please ignore my dylexia wherever possible, just be thankful I can control my Tourettes ;)

Things to do, so little time!

Steve
Roboscopes Tea Boy


1 year ago
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#4924
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Hi All,

It is a shame we are having problems with this target it would make a great image. 

Given where we are today, I would support Ray's suggestion of a single frame. We are much more likely to get something that way. The two-pane option is better from a framing and completeness point of view, but we run a bigger risk of not getting a viable image before the window closes.

The single frame captures the main features the way Ray has framed it. So that is my preference.

However, if most people want to attempt the two-pane mosaic, I am OK with that.

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Thanks Richard and Steve for your rapid responses. I may have an alternative but inferior compromise. This however would not impact upon this pier.

Much will depend upon the data I receive back from pier 11 and how good it turns out. Last night 3 of the 4 hours I requested were captured, however, according to the weather site I use, there was almost 100 pcent high clouds. Not good for something like this particularly when low in the sky as well.

This job is the frame I just attached but using the OSC on pier 11. It will not be as good as that taken on pier 14, but, better than nothing. When it completes and I get a chance to process it and bears a slight resemblance to a horse, I'll post the image. I'm sure that Steve wouldn't then mind sharing the dataset with the members. 

Please don't put too much reliance on this and still let us know your thoughts. 

Cheers, 

Ray 

 


Ray
Roboscopes Guinea Pig


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