PIER-14 1st Submission : M16 / M17 ?

Hi Florent,

No, I don't think we have that target yet.

It is a beautiful part of the sky.

The Eagle and Swan together make a nice combination:


You could just about fit Sh2-54 in as well, but that means you are going right to the edge of the frame. It might be better as a two-pane mosaic.


These are with the old camera orientation, but both nebulae will fit with the camera anywhere near vertical.

I notice that you plan equal exposure for each of the narrowband filters. That is how I started out, and I found that the Ha signal was overpowering. I have been working with exposure ratios Ha:S2:O3 of 1:1.5:2. I think I need to get even more O3 and S2 for some targets. It is worth increasing total exposure for S2 and O3, they are much weaker emissions for most targets.

Old_eyes

Hi Florent,

I did M16 using pier 6 last year, but included ngc6604 instead, and was pleased with what I received. I wished however that I'd included M17 instead. Because it was costing so much an hour I never captured any s2 data either so I'm interested in what your submissions will give us.

If as you said you've submitted 1.5 hours per filter, apart from the ha data you may find that the other 2 filters require a bit more time. Given M16 and M17's low elevation the less time that they will be available, so it might be worthwhile to make a second submission soon. Just some additional O3 and S2 data as the ha data is probably sufficient. Maybe an additional 1.5 hours of each. Just my personal opinion, but better to have a bit more data than needed than not enough. The great advantage of a syndicate and not being concerned about the cost. Consideration for other members is something we might need to consider though.

Say for example I 'think' something might require more than 12 hours total time, then rather than submit say 14 hours, just as an example, I'd submit 7 hours. I 'll receive the data back sooner and then be able to estimate if another 4 hours or 7 hours or even more would be useful. Just my humble opinion. If I was 'confident' that 14 hours would be required then I'd go ahead and do so as one submission.

Apologies for my preaching, just my personal thoughts.

Cheers,

Ray

Hi Florent,

While I was typing my comment I see that Richard had in the meantime also suggested more exposure times. There is a saying, "great minds think alike".

Cheers,

Ray

hi
i think that for a first try , i would prefer to stick to M16/M17 . With the camera orientation a two panel with Sh2-54 will make a very wide image ,

You right , S2 is weak , i need to put more exposure on it . I think that making a first submission with 1.5h HA , 2h Oiii , 2hSII may be good. can be completed after with more SII / O3

you dont plan a first test shoot of 2 or 3 exposures each filter to be sure of the coordonates when you launch a new project ?

hi
i think that for a first try , i would prefer to stick to M16/M17 . With the camera orientation a two panel with Sh2-54 will make a very wide image ,

You right , S2 is weak , i need to put more exposure on it . I think that making a first submission with 1.5h HA , 2h Oiii , 2hSII may be good. can be completed after with more SII / O3

you dont plan a first test shoot of 2 or 3 exposures each filter to be sure of the coordinates when you launch a new project ?

I think M16/M17 will make a lovely image. Go for it. You are in control! Image what you want.

No I don't do trial test shots. The pier is run by software that tries to optimise the use of the scope/camera time, so you do not know when a target will be selected and how long it will take to finish. Once I had the camera angle correct (I started off with the wrong number) the mosaic planner in Telescopius and the FOV visualiser in Stellarium let me submit jobs with confidence. Unless I type in the wrong number!

Ok , i made my first 2 mistake , first time entry without any filter , second with bad coord , i didnt saw that it need coord like 18h 04m 00s +23d 32m 00s , i simply put 18 18 48 -14 54 04

cant we delete submission or only admin can do it ? can you delete submission id 1051 1050 ?

Your coordinates on job 1051 are fine. You can see if you go to Members Area/Syndicate Area/View Submissions.

Forgetting the filters? Yes, I do that all the time.

You're not the first person to do so and I still occasionally press the wrong button and end up not being able to select the filters and exposures.

Unfortunately right now I don't see any way that we can remove them ourselves, the person looking at the submission will just skip it if there are no filter and exposure numbers.

Those RA and DEC coordinates you just posted are the way we are recommended to do so, and you can also type in a description such as "M16 & M17". That is optional but does make it clearer to anyone looking at the submissions just what it is rather than having to use the coordinates to find out.

After entering the filter, number of subs (exposures) and duration, there is the option to signal that right now the target has not yet risen enough. A future target. An additional description can be added. For example you could say that this submission is part of a mosaic, or, is the first or second submission when deciding to split the total integration time into 2 halves.

Cheers,

Ray

Ok
i thought that you have to put either coord OR object name .
i put a note in the submission as M16/M17


<--- still learning

Hi Florent,


You're right it doesn't tell you that you can enter both, so no worries.

For a single target you only need to enter the name of the target as long as the name you use is a recognised catalogue name. Most catalogue names are accepted but for something I'm not sure about, maybe ced214, I'd enter the coordinates plus the name. Apart from that the only other time I'd enter both is obviously when there's more than a single target in the field of view, quite common with this setup. Additionally should you decide to offset your single target for better framing then you need to enter those coordinates. Adding the name just acts as a reminder, particularly useful in my case as I often forget later on what job number relates to what object.

Hope that explains things.

Cheers,

Ray

crystal clear explanation


is the setup use Dithering between exposure ?

Florent yes it does which is tremendous. While I think about it you will find that quite often when you examine your data the exposures will have been collected over more than one day. The data on some days (sessions) are better than others, so it's possible that you may find one set of data or more that you want to reject before you calibrate. When you feel that there are too many just make a new submission to replace them.

Another small anomaly is that the first image taken of a session I find is slightly offset to all the subsequent ones. So for example if there were 3 sets of data (sessions) with 12, 12 and 8 exposures (subs) respectively, the first one of each 3 sets will align to one another (subject to the dithering offset), while 11 each of the first 2 sets and 7 of the last will align. This is not an issue given the wide field just a small thing to be aware of.

Hi
i ve add a pane with M16 and SH2-54 region , as the orientation of the camera is -179 , it is a good idea to add SH2-54 region




So to summary:

Sub 1051 : pane1 with M16/M17
Sub 1069 : pane2 with M16/SH2-54

with 30% overlap as M16 is on the edge

coord :
Pane, RA, DEC, Position Angle (East), Pane width (arcmins), Pane height (arcmins), Overlap, Row, Column
Pane 1, 18hr 18' 42", -14º 53' 43", 179.50, 321.00, 213.60, 30%, 1, 1
Pane 2, 18hr 18' 36", -12º 24' 12", 179.50, 321.00, 213.60, 30%, 2, 1

Looks good Florent.

hello
juste before leaving for summer holiday , a first result of the 2 pane. I will reprocess it with the new Oiii data and new flat later

I just upload a small version , the large one is huge

I think that a third panel , down M17 , will balance the image to open sight on the south. What do you think of submitting a third panel ?

Go for the third Panel!

I agree, make the most of the time when it is available to image. You were very quick processing that mosaic, very impressed by that and the resulting image Florent. Hope you have a great holiday.

Hello
I Ve just submit the third panel , I completely forgot to do it last week
Florent